After the Time Team successfully stops Rittenhouse from helping the South win the Civil War, RH’s ultimate sleeper agent is revealed and leads to tragic consequences. We share our thoughts (and tears) in this week’s Timeless roundtable for “The General” and “Chinatown” with our friends Fangirlish!
Clockblockers, I don’t know about you, but the Timeless Season 2 finale devastated me for so many reasons. What we had guessed at all season came to pass, as we learned that Jessica was in fact with Rittenhouse… the ultimate sleeper agent. And this spiraled out to have horrific effects on the Time Team, including Rufus’s death. With that said, there were moments of hope, I think. In “The General”, meeting Harriet Tubman was fantastic. First of all, she was a total badass and then we also learned that, like Jiya, Harriet Tubman could travel through time via her visions. And then, even as the Time Team mourned losing Rufus, we got a massive boost of confidence when Future Lucy and Wyatt arrived in a jazzed up Lifeboat, prepared to #SaveRufus. This is what I’m talking about!
So now, we just need NBC to announce that Timeless has been renewed for Season 3, so the awesome creators, cast, and crew can get back to work telling these awesome stories that we love!
We present our final Timeless roundtable of the season with Fangirlish! Team Fangirlish came up with the awesome questions, which I’ve included below along with my responses and Lyra’s (Fangirlish) and Lizzie’s (Fangirlish) contributions. The full roundtable post includes EIGHT contributors, so definitely go HERE for more thoughts on “The General” and “Chinatown”.
1. Describe your feelings about “The General” in one gif:
2. Describe your feelings about “Chinatown” in one gif:
3. Let’s talk Rufus first, because Rufus is the heart of this show. How did you feel about seeing him die? What do you expect to see happen now? Share your feels.
Funmbi: *SIGH* Rufus, my sweet Hero in a Hoodie, I can’t believe he’s really gone. I keep flashing back to the scene between Jiya and Connor where she is sobbing about not being able to find Rufus anywhere in time and space. She’s totally devastated about nobody being there to claim Rufus’s body, bury him, grieve him. My heart breaks over and over again. And the thing is, we’ve supposedly known Rufus’s death was coming practically all season long, yet that knowledge didn’t lessen the pain. Part of the issue is that they faked us out by having Jiya kill the man who was supposed to stab Rufus… but then Emma. Ugh. What I know is that Rufus will not stay dead for long. I anticipate Future Lucy and Wyatt plus Present Lucy and Wyatt joining together and saving Rufus from wherever he is… and hopefully, Rufus is chilling with Harriet Tubman, waiting for his friends to come get him.
Lyra: Watching him die was like narrowly avoiding a car accident and then getting side swiped by a biker off to the side because you just so happened to stumble onto a bike path. I knew Rufus’ death was coming and I thought, for once, that we had had told destiny to go and suck it. Instead, fate creeped up and took Rufus from us. He fell into the same story that pops up in time travel shows over and over again where their efforts to prevent the future, they end up creating it. And it’s utterly infuriating. I expect the future versions of Lucy and Wyatt to already have a plan set, concocted over years of suffering without Rufus and working to somehow get him back. They’ll save their past versions the time it took them to figure this all out and give us a BADASS season 3. Because we’re going to get a season 3.
Lizzie: It’s been like a week and I still can’t deal. I just …no. I need Rufus in my life. I need Timeless in my life so Rufus can come back to my life. Because, boy, I knew it was coming and it still hurt like a bitch. The future them twist I didn’t see coming, but I figured, whatever happened, they were going to find a way around Rufus actually dying, because …he’s Rufus. He can’t die.
Again, that doesn’t mean I’m not emotional. I sobbed my way through this episode about 3 times, and the second and third time were worse because I already knew what was coming. Rufus is just one of those characters …I’m never going to be ready to lose him, to death or cancellation. You hear me, NBC? You hear me?
4. Jiya was an absolute and complete badass in these two episodes. What’s been your favorite thing about Jiya’s development? Where do you want her to go next? Share your feels.
Funmbi: Jiya is an absolute fave. Clearly, her badass intellectual skills keep the Lifeboat running and the Time Team able to safely follow Rittenhouse through history. But on a personal level, we’ve seen Jiya’s romantic relationship with Rufus and friendship with Lucy deepen. And with concerns over her visions, we also see the depth of Connor’s and Agent Christopher’s care for Jiya, too. Specifically, in these two episodes, Jiya puts all her skills to use to escape Traitor Jessica and Rittenmon, hide the Lifeboat for the Time Team, AND leave a message (in, Klingon;no less) in history for her friends. In the end, she does all this for the sake of Rufus and her love for him. Still, it isn’t enough. At the end of “Chinatown”, Jiya is so devastated and frustrated. She allowed herself to open up and care for these people and she’s been hurt so badly. The pain is unimaginable. My hope is that Jiya continues to be open to love and friendship. After all, if there’s anyone who will cosign Future Lucy’s and Wyatt’s plan to recover Rufus, it’s definitely Jiya!
Lyra: My favorite thing about Jiya’s development is that she didn’t fade into the background. I was set and ready for this computer genius to disappear into the background as the white main couple took the stage. But she didn’t. Rufus didn’t. Riya didn’t. And I loved it. Here we have a woman of color in a STEM career who has fallen in love with a man of color. Everytime I think about it I have to take a moment to pause and admire the beauty of it all. Jiya is real and if we can have a talented, badass, intelligent woman like this on our screens who just so happens to be a woman of color, we can have another and another and another. As for her development, every single step of her journey has been about giving her a family, something to protect, and the independence in her that was just waiting to be grown and set free. Over 3 years we missed a lot of this development and saw her crank it up to 100 when it came to her being independent AF and wanting to care for her loved ones. Next we’ll see her hold like a tree; strong, firm, and true. But over time we’ll see the cracks, the tiny fissures, where the real her full of pain will come forth.
Lizzie: Basically that we GOT the development. That she isn’t just a love interest, that we’ve gotten glimpses of her life before all of this, before Rufus, that she’s got a separate relationship with Lucy and even Wyatt, that she has a separate relationship with Denise and Mason, that she’s got her own fears and hangups and that she exists as a character separate from the relationship she’s in, something TV sometimes fails at doing with women. So, yeah. I just want more. More of her and Lucy, especially, because we don’t have enough healthy female friendships on TV, but in general, just more. Because just the fact that Jiya exists, as she is, makes me happy.
5. Wyatt was a dumbass twice over – and yet, at the end of the second episode, we saw a glimmer of hope. What do you think about his journey this season? Share your feels.
Funmbi: I just think about Wyatt in “Darlington 500” and “Hollywoodland”–he’s fanboying, as well as sharing his past pain with Lucy and Rufus. Wyatt is so unburdened in those episodes. And then Jessica returns and sends Wyatt flailing through the rest of the reason, unable to recover his earlier peace of mind. It’s so frustrating to watch, especially because Wyatt *knew* something was up with Jessica. The signs were so obvious. Yet, over and over again, we watch Wyatt push his instincts aside for the sake of the relationship with Jessica he wishes he could get back. But like Lucy says to Flynn, if Rittenhouse brought back his wife and daughter or Amy, neither of them would ask questions either *SIGH* But at least Wyatt now acknowledges he botched his relationship with Lucy and that he loves her. But since Wyatt believes Jessica to be pregnant (I don’t believe her, but whatever), she still has a hold on him, one that Rittenhouse will totally manipulate. So the complexity continues.
Lyra: I have to keep reminding myself that Wyatt is on a journey when I think of him. I have to keep reminding myself that people make mistakes, that no one is perfect, and that sometimes we hold our favorite characters to the highest regards without thinking about the real life versions of what’s happening and how you would never do it like that. I have to keep reminding myself that I’ve made mistakes, and how I’d love for others to give me a second, third, fourth chance. I have to keep reminding myself of these things because Wyatt Logan has been the type of ass hat I would never forgive on a show but realize that I would in real life because people mistakes sometimes and this show has characters that are all in impossible situations. Going forward…I see that hope. I see that spark that means that he understands what he has done and that it will take time to fix what was broken. For that spark I will wait and I will hold true when it comes to Wyatt. I don’t know where my line in the sand is with this man but I’m interested to see what comes next.
Lizzie: Honestly, I just …he’s not perfect. I don’t need characters to be perfect to like him. Was he a dumbass? I’ve called him that many times this season. Was he malicious? No. Were his actions understandable? Yes. We hold fictional characters to impossible standards sometimes and judge them harshly when they can’t keep up. Did I like how they wrote him in Season 2? No, not really. Would I have changed a few things? Yes. Did they ruin him for me, completely and irrevocably? Not even close. If I can forgive Flynn for Season 1 you bet your ass I can forgive Wyatt for Season 2.
6. Lucy’s journey during the run of this show has taken her from someone who wouldn’t even conceive of changing history to someone willing to do whatever it takes. What do you think about her journey? Share your feels.
Funmbi: I think of Lucy at the end of “Chinatown” in her confrontation with Emma: “What do you do to someone who has taken everyone that you love?!”
After Emma beats her up and she’s sobbing in Flynn’s arms, you can just see that Lucy is way past her limit. And truly, the pain she has endured this season, in this finale episode, is overwhelming. But Lucy is still standing. She’s still kind and empathetic, evidenced by her last conversation with Wyatt. And I think Lucy has gotten to the point where to protect those she loves and take down Rittenhouse and Emma, it has to be by any means necessary, including changing history. Yes, I can totally see how Lucy becomes the Future Lucy (apparently Lara Croft Lucy) to write that journal and go back in time to give it to Flynn. And, at this point, I’m 100% with Lucy, Present AND Future!
Lyra: Lucy’s journey feels like the shift we all go through from adolescence to adulthood; the one where we realize that the world isn’t rainbows and kittens and that there are real life ramifications to the choices we make. It’s a loss of innocence and something ultimately heartbreaking. Lucy will never have that same wonder and joy that she did the first time we see her. She’s harder, more weathered, and the survivor she never thought she’d be. I’m proud of her for her adaptability, her strength, and her perseverance to keep her little family together. Lucy Preston is not going to give up. Not now. Not ever.
Lizzie: Lucy is, in many ways, the least relatable character in this show, because, at times, she’s been just …too perfect. She’s endlessly selfless and noble and kind and just …FEEL, WOMAN, FEEL. But the same things that make her hard to relate to sometimes make her such a great role model. She is, not what we are, but sometimes, what we want to be. Her journey, I think, has been about letting go of control, about accepting that sometimes you have to fuck up history and you have to do a lot of things for a greater good – so in a way, her journey has been about becoming more human and less …Lucy? And, yet, somehow, for me, she’s now an even bigger role model. Maybe because she’s more real.
7. Flynn’s season 2 journey was about humanizing him and making us relate to him. DId it work? How are your Flynn feels?
Funmbi: I still don’t trust Flynn as far as I can throw him. With that said, the fact that Flynn would throw the Time Team under the bus in order get his family back doesn’t annoy me the way it used to. I think of Flynn’s conversation with Agent Christopher where he describes how important it is to seize every single moment with family. I was really moved and inspired. And interestingly, it seems that Flynn’s feelings are extending to Lucy. I still don’t know if I see the potential for romance between these two, but I know that Flynn is starting to care very deeply for Lucy. I’m still wrestling to figure out how to put all these pieces together, because Flynn is still hella problematic. But I like learning more about him.
Lyra: I didn’t want it to. I really held back. But Flynn and his damn turtleneck sweaters seduced me with their defined arms and snarky comebacks. What can I say, I’m a sucker for a sassy person. My kryptonite. And Timeless knew itttt! For me, it’s the ultimate way to humanize someone. Butttttt, the missing key to all of this development and humanizing of Flynn, is that he hasn’t asked for forgiveness for the things he’s done. Where is the regret? I see the change in his actions around the Time Team. And it’s a start and that counts. But to solidify it all, I need to see the regret for his actions.
Lizzie: It worked. Not in a OMG I trust him 100% with the life of my faves, or even in a OMG I’m having arm and fuzzy feelings every time he talks to Lucy way, but in a I find this character really interesting, I want more from him and I’m ready to explore the different dynamics within the team and what he adds to them. And considering what he did in Season 1, that’s a hell of a leap for me.
8. Denise and Mason have a conversation in the bunker that underscored what this team is, and what they mean to each other: family. Has the show done a good job of portraying this? Share your feels.
Funmbi: One of the things I’ve loved about Timeless is how, from the beginning, the Time Team forged an unassailable bond. And I’m talking about Lucy, Wyatt, AND Rufus. This could have easily devolved into a Lyatt + third wheel situation (especially after the Lucy and Wyatt made their feelings for one another known), but that has never been the case. These three are a family. And through Season 2, we’ve had the great joy of learning how much the other members of the team are essential members of this family too. We’ve seen this with Jiya (as I’ve mentioned earlier), with Connor in “The King of the Delta Blues”, and with Agent Christopher in “The Day Reagan was Shot”. In Season 2, each character gets the chance to shine and they all rise to the occasion to save the day. You can just imagine how losing Rufus would devastate that bond. But hopefully, he’ll be back soon!
Lyra: Timeless has done a phenomenal job at emphasizing the role that found families have in the Time Team’s lives by giving us small moments to bring them together, build their bonds, and then test them. This show hasn’t gone the way of other networks and other shows where all that matters is the couple on the screen. Oh no, the friendships and bonds of family are just as important or even more important than what’s happening with Lyatt. That makes me love the show even more.
Lizzie: This has always been one of my favorite parts of this show, and one of the things that Season 2 managed to do better. This is a family, and families are not always made up of blood, but of people who love each other. And yes, families are complicated and not always perfect, but families stick together, no matter what. If the show hadn’t been able to establish this connection, the conversation would be meaningless. Since they have, I found myself not just tearing up, but wanting more of it.
9. Rittenhouse is now in the hands of Emma and Jessica. How are you feeling about this development? What do you hope to see from them going forward?
Funmbi: You know, it became clear in “Mrs. Sherlock Holmes”, Emma is going to put herself and her own interests above Rittenhouse. And as soon as Emma realizes that Carol is trying to freeze her out (“Rittenhouse is about family. It’s about legacy, something Emma will never understand.”), you can just tell that the game has changed. So, of course, Emma doesn’t hesitate to gun down Carol and Nicholas without batting an eyelash. I don’t know what to think now that Emma and Jessica are basically running Rittenhouse. I mean, how are they going to explain Carol’s and Nicholas’s death to the rest of the Rittenhouse folks? Is she still planning to execute Nicholas’s plan to make Americans more docile so Rittenhouse can dominate? Ugh, I really want Emma dead and I wouldn’t mind if Jessica bit it too.
Lyra: I LOVE ITTTT! I knew Emma was going to snap as soon as Carol gave her that crap about family and Rittenhouse being a dynasty of sorts. Emma has had to fight for every single thing she’s gotten in her life, especially when it comes to Rittenhouse, and this is how they’re going to treat her? I know she’s evil, but I see the path that led her to this and it makes sense. Having Emma (and Jessica) at the forefront of Rittenhouse is scary AF. Our red-head evil goddess has nothing to lose and one of the most dangerous things on her side, belief. Going forward she’s going to use that belief to create a world based on what she believes it should be like. Everyone should be afraid.
Lizzie: I love that the family part of the equation is – for a moment, at least – sorta taken out of the main Rittenhouse timeline. I don’t think it’s the last we’ll hear of Lucy’s RH connections, but for now, I like that they moved away from it. I also really enjoy Emma as an antagonist. As for Jessica …meh. It all comes off as fake, I don’t believe a word about the baby and I’m not really excited about a possible Season of emotional manipulation. I’m over the Jessica angle. So over it.
10. The season is over. What was your favorite thing about it? What would you have changed?
Funmbi: Season 2 of Timeless was epic, in every sense of the word, and I think my favorite part was getting to watch the Timeless world expand and evolve. I loved these characters before, but Season 2 made them even more compelling and entrenched in my heart. They experienced joy, laughter, unimaginable pain and we got to be there the entire time, right by their side. With that said, for me, the Jessica = Rittenhouse storyline was *so* obvious from the beginning. She was the ultimate sleeper agent that infiltrated the Time Team… but most of us saw that coming. The ramifications for Jessica coming back to life and eventually betraying the Time Team are still significant. But I wonder if there was a less predictable direction for Jessica. Although, it was very interesting to see Jessica acknowledge that Lucy loves Wyatt. She didn’t even seem phased when she mentioned it to Carol. Jessica seemed even kind of impressed with Lucy. Now that is curious…
Lyra: I would’ve made Jessica not a believer of Rittenhouse. It would’ve been sooooo much more interesting if she was just trying to survive this mission to get back to her family and finally be done with Rittenhouse. What they did with her, at least to me, is predictable. She’s evil. Blah, blah, blah. She’s going to kill them all. Blah, blah, blah. Been there, done that. It would’ve been more heartbreaking to Wyatt and us as the viewer if she was just doing what she could to get by without believing the ideology she was raised in. And in a way…she’s who Lucy would’ve been if she was raised in this cult of Rittenhouse. Interesting…Going to spiral on this thought. Bye!
Lizzie: My favorite things were Riya, even through the ups and downs, the Lyatt we got in the first three episodes, the advancement of Flynn’s character arc and the way the season fleshed out Jiya, Denise and Mason in a way that made us care. I would have changed most of the Jessica storyline, because I think Wyatt came off as way too – well, everything, and that could have been changed with just tiny little things, like him actually confiding in Rufus or Denise. But overall, I think I wouldn’t have made Jessica fully RH, I would have made her a sleeper agent who actually had a family she wanted to get back to. I think that would have been much more interesting, to have her turn on RH.
11. Time to pick a ship: Lyatt or Garcy. Explain why.
Funmbi: 100% Lyatt. Lucy and Wyatt are so in love with each other. Season 2 has shown us the high-highs and the low-lows of Lyatt. When these two are together, they bring out the best in one another, and there’s so much joy. When they are forced apart, we see the extent of the pain Lucy and Wyatt BOTH experience. This isn’t to diminish the connection between Lucy and Flynn, but I’m just not convinced that it’s romantic. But much respect to Garcy shippers! That’s the joy of fandom, we can ship whoever we want 🙂
Lyra: Riya. I know I’m supposed to pick the love angle but this is me rebelling. GIVE ME MORE RIYA! Fine! I can see the moderator watching me and waiting for me to get in line. Lyatt because Garcy is definitely some Princess Leia/Luke Skywalker shit.
Lizzie: Lyatt, no doubt about it. There are many reasons behind that. I’m not going to go into the reasons why I don’t like Garcy, because I think one of the things that sometimes makes fandoms toxic is the ship wars and the way they degenerate. Above all, I believe we should ship what we want and not try to impose our opinion on others. Also – because I don’t need to talk down another ship to talk about why I love mine. I love Lyatt because I think they’re two flawed people who bring out the best in each other. I think they were friends first and foremost and there’s a deep layer of that and of trust that permeates everything, and though, I would have liked to see this season handled differently, writing wise, I see no reason to believe that, if Wyatt puts his all into it, we can’t get back to that. And hey, the Future Lucy and Future Wyatt seem to be backing me up!
12. Riya has no competition. Share your Riya feels with us!
Funmbi: I do adore Riya, and it’s been such a joy to see them go from all the awkward (but adorableness) of Season 1 to Rufus’s and Jiya’s declarations of love and engaging in overwhelming sacrifices for one another. I just hope that when Rufus comes back, whatever he’s experienced doesn’t become an obstacle to Riya, or Rufus’s other relationships. Also, who’s going to tell Rufus’s mother and brother that he’s dead?! *WEEPING*
Lyra: Riya is the ship I never thought I’d go hardcore for. The one built on hope, love, and wanting to protect each other to the point where you’re leaving messages in Klingon to the future to not come and get you. And I think we’ve seen some shows try to pull crap like this before. And it’s been cheesy and I’ve been super critical about how partnerships mean…that they’re partners. You can’t make decisions without the other. It’s taking away their choice. And this principle still holds true for Riya but in a way that I didn’t expect. Their seperation wasn’t done for dramas sake or as something that will be repeated season after season *cough* Arrow *cough*. This Riya situation was a test of a bond, a declaration of love, and a move forward in their relationship. These two are just at the beginning of their journey and I can’t wait to see more!
Lizzie: They are adorable and amazing and I’m glad they haven’t been relegated to just one line every episode, but that they’ve gone through a journey of their own, as well as individual journeys. I’d love to see them happy and working together, but I think Season 3 will probably bring more pain our way. Though, if it’s external pain and they face it together, I can deal. I really can.
13. Future Lucy and Future Wyatt looked calm, confident, and like a team. How do you think the journey from now to that looks? And, can our Lucy and Wyatt get there? What needs to happen?
Funmbi: You know, the very first thing I thought when seeing Future Lucy and Future Wyatt is how Seasons 1 and 2 have all been an attempt by bring Rufus back. Future Lucy sets these events in motion by travelling to Brazil to give Flynn her journal. So, you have to wonder if Future Lucy and Future Wyatt have intervened in any other way??? It makes me want to go back and rewatch the episodes from Season 1 to see in any clues. In any event, I think that Future Lucy and Future Wyatt will take Present Lucy and Present Wyatt with them on the journey to save Rufus. My hope is that, in the process of seeing Future Lucy and Future Wyatt have a healthy partnership, that Present Lucy and Present Wyatt will realize that the obstacles they’re currently daving aren’t insurmountable.
Lyra: The only way you get bearded up like Wyatt and shotgun handling like Lucy, is if you’ve gone through some hard stuff. You’ve lost people, barely made it through, and only had yourself and a select few to trust it. Maybe hard times made it so Lucy and Wyatt could only depend on each other. Either way, their timeline is the darkest timeline. And no matter what, no matter if they disappear from existence after they do what they came to do, it’ll be worth it. For Rufus, the essential piece of their team, he’s worth it.
Lizzie: I think they are a team, and probably, not just a team, but a couple, one that has gone through a lot and has had to learn a lot and sacrifice a lot and one who might have possibly orchestrated everything we’ve seen in the show so far, JUST TO GET RUFUS BACK. Let that sink in. All they want is their friend back. And I think they want him back so much that they’re willing to risk everything, even changing that future that clearly sucks, but in which they have each other. So – that tells me a couple of things: 1. they’ve come to a place of absolute trust where they can make these decisions as a team, and 2. they probably trust that whatever happens, they’ll get back there, to each other. So I think, whatever happens, the future, in this case, is set in stone. The good parts, at least.
14. Think of Season 3. It’s a done deal. Now, what do you want to see in it?
Funmbi: In Season 3, I’d really like Emma and Jessica to die. Sorry to start off so morbid, but it’s my truth. Clearly, I want Rufus back ASAP and I hope he’s the same Hero in a Hoodie that we love… but the experience of dying and coming back to life can’t leave someone unscathed. I want to see the journal Future Lucy wrote for Flynn. I want Flynn’s family and Amy to come back… provided that they’re not sleeper agents for Rittenhouse! I want Connor to get his money and company back. I want Agent Christopher and her family to be happy and healthy. I want Lucy to realize that, with or without Wyatt, she’s worth it and deserves all the happiness in the world. And I want Wyatt to be proactive in helping Lucy to heal… in fact, they can heal together and hopefully reclaim their romantic relationship, too.
Lyra: I want to see future Lucy and Wyatt walking around, all comfortable around each other, and making present Lucy and Wyatt wonder what they’ve gone through to get where they are now. I want Jiya to not collapse into herself. I want her to fight for Rufus now that she’s being given an opportunity to change things. I want present Lucy to remember that she’s not alone and that she has family. I want Wyatt to start on the long and hard road to fixing what’s broken, not just with Lucy, but with everyone else at the Time Team. I want them to trust each other, become closer, and kick Rittenhouse’s ass!
Lizzie: Much more of the women being friends, especially Lucy and Jiya. Much more of the team being family. Probably Flynn’s family, as I now care about him getting something of a happy ending. Much more of Rufus and Wyatt being bros. And just …all the happy, light Lyatt we deserved and didn’t get in Season 2. Please, give me that.
15. We’ve been here before, but it bears repeating. #RenewTimeless why?
Funmbi: I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: we deserve a series that places stories of women, People of Color, and other marginalized voices front and center. THIS IS TIMELESS. And we deserve the opportunity to learn more about these amazing characters on the Time Team and watch them grow. Their stories are nowhere near done! NBC, the ball is in your court, so:
Lyra: Diverse shows with diverse storytelling make for a better, more accepting world. Who wouldn’t want that?
Lizzie: Because it’s the best show on TV. Because we need to see how we get to that future. Because Rufus deserves to live. Because it’s the best show on TV. What else do I need to say?